Northeast: Wal-Mart a No, Harris Hill a Maybe?

A couple of updates on projects on the Northeast side:

The Northeast Huntsville Wal-Mart, which would have been built at the intersection of Shields and US 72, is no longer planned, and the land is back up for sale. To the delight of some, dismay to others, it could be years before Wal-Mart builds a store on the Northeast side.

Harris Hill, which continues to be the most-emailed-about project, still seems to be a go. Not much has happened since part of the land for the massive development was cleared about a year ago. The project appears to still include retail, office space, and a hotel. Construction could begin as early as next summer. Don't yell at me if it doesn't, though.

• Check out past articles on Harris Hill.

Madison wants a real downtown

If you've never been to the Madison Street Festival, chances are you've never been to downtown Madison, much less even knew there was one. Downtown Madison consists of a handful of single-story row of shops and restaurants along Main and Church Streets, plus a small historic district of homes bordered by Sullivan and Church Streets and Mill Road.

Now, some Madison residents are looking into plans to expand and enhance their downtown. The Times notes that the "new downtown" boundaries would include the area surrounded by Sullivan, Browns Ferry, Hughes, and Madison Blvd. This area includes Madison's City Hall, post office, stadium, and one school (Madison Elementary-- see map below for locations).

However, this new downtown zone also has many suburban features, including a Wal-Mart, an industrial park, and a strip of motels and fast-food joints along Madison Blvd next to the interstate. It will be interesting to see how Madison, a city that has had a laissez-faire attitude towards development and sprawl for many years (and paid the price with overcrowded schools and roads), does with this introductory experiment in urban development.

Current downtown
Proposed downtown expansion (click to expand)

Regions to donate historic bank

Big Spring Partners is doing something for a change. They will be the recipients of the historic Regions Bank branch on Courthouse Square overlooking Big Spring Park. The bank was built in 1835 and is Alabama's oldest continually-operating bank (see picture). Big Spring Partners will move their offices there from the Holiday Inn (another BSP acquisition), and the city plans to move the Community Development department from their current Holmes Avenue offices.

The bank branch will close on January 29th, and the building will be given to Big Spring Partners sometime in February.

Ideas for Downtown

Big Spring Partners, the non-profit "downtown development" company that has done little of any significance in the six years since it was founded, has been discussing more ideas for improving downtown after taking a trip to Chattanooga over the summer. Some are old ideas, some are new. Here are a few of them, with some comments on whether or not they'll work:

• Move Sci-Quest downtown. Yes. I discussed this (along with a new Museum District) in an April post.
  
• A "world-class planetarium." Partial No. Instead of making it separate, put on top of the new Sci-Quest.
  
• A new ballpark. Yes. Once again, already been discussed here.
  
• A riverwalk park. Yes. It's long been a dream of Huntsville to replicate San Antonio's successful Riverwalk. What we've got is an overgrown creek with little around it, ripe for development if done right.
  
• A downtown marketplace. Yes. I like Greg Hathorn's idea of making parts of Courthouse Square a pedestrian market.
  
• A Country/Western music venue. No. Yeeeeee Haw! If you want to bring people under 50 with teeth downtown, keeping the honky-tonk out would be a good thing.

Here are some more ideas, probably more practical than the ones mentioned above:

• More condos/apartments. Believe it or not, not all of us want to live in some cookie-cutter brick home in Monrovia. However, there are few other choices to choose from. There are currently less than 50 privately-owned condos in downtown. That's sad. Downtown can't have more successful retail, entertainment, and restaurants without a permanent (24-hour) population. But let's not forget that these condos must be affordable. The $450,000 condos that currently dominate downtown are too expensive, especially for a city with relatively low home prices. Condos that run between $150-200k would be a better fit for the young, vibrant population that prefers urban living.
  
• More downtown retail; more specifically, a grocery store. Specialty shops, boutiques, even a bookstore would also be great additions. But a word of caution: trying to put these into some kind of downtown shopping mall will only end in failure.
• A downtown cinema. This has worked well in places like Chattanooga and Lincoln, NE. Plus it would fill a major void in this part of the city.
  
• A downtown circulator bus. How about a free weekday circulator, much like the weekend evening service. However, this would serve more of the daytime crowd. Cities like Birmingham and Savannah have such circulators.
  
• Smarter street designs, such as better signage, pedestrian access, and landscaping. Downtown needs better directional signage for tourists and residents to direct them to museums, hotels, restaurants, etc. Pedestrian access and landscaping need to be improved, especially west and north of the Central Business District.
  
• More music/art festivals throughout the year. Big Spring Jam and Panoply are obvious successes; why not capitalize on those? Smaller music festivals have proven successful, such as the one on Clinton Street with Sister Hazel back in July. More mid-sized music venues (like WorkPlay in Birmingham or a House of Blues) would help too.

Got any ideas? I'd love to hear them. And maybe the members of Big Spring Partners who read this blog will see them too.

A Closer Look at Constellation

The cover story of the September issue of Southeast Real Estate Business talks about the recent shift to mixed-use developments. One of the highlighted projects is Constellation, the $150 million redevelopment of the old Marketsquare Mall site in downtown led by local developer Scott McLain. The article gives us the most detailed description of Constellation yet. A summary:

• 314 hotel rooms, split evenly between a Springhill Suites and a Residence Inn. The Springhill Suites will be the first component of the project to begin construction, which should be very, very soon.
  
• 63,320 square feet of retail space, 21,000 of which is being set aside for a "green grocery." The rest will be shops and restaurants (not including the three restaurant parcels facing the Parkway). Something like an Urban Outfitters could work well in a project like this.
  
• 187,000 square feet of office space. Wow, that's a lot more than the three-story office building proposed across the street could possibly hold. Maybe the rest of the office space is in a high-rise. We can only hope.
  
• 97 residential units. This is smaller than the 160 units proposed in May 2008, but in line with the 80-100 units proposed with the 2007 announcement of the project. It also seems that the developers still haven't decided on whether or not to build condos or apartments.
  

Let's hope that some new renderings and a website are coming soon. Some tenant announcements would be nice, but that might be asking too much.

More info:
Southeast Real Estate Business article: "Mixed Use Bonanza"
Past articles on Constellation

Housing Authority shifts to Lowe Mill

Two proposed redevelopments of downtown public housing projects were put on hold by the Huntsville Housing Authority due to a missed federal grant deadline, according to the Times. However, the HHA has shifted its focus to a project in Lowe Mill called Brookside. They have until November 17th to apply for a redevelopment grant. HHA has signed on Big Spring Partners and Aslan, a development company out of Louisville, to help with the grant application. For those unfamiliar with the area, here's an aerial image of Brookside (outlined in white) and the surrounding area:

The missed grant deadlines did not delay the controversial Councill Court redevelopment, which is currently underway.

Lincoln Mill Project back from the dead

Back in December 2007, a $20 million plan was revealed by Dr. James Byrne to renovate the Lincoln Mill in Northeast Huntsville into shops, restaurants, and up to 60 loft condominiums. The plan seemed like it had died until construction activity was seen at the site in July (though my fellow Northeast-siders who drive on 565 and fans of the blog on Facebook knew that already). Now, two tenants are preparing to move into the building- a small private school and a microbrewery, according to the Times. The third (top) floor, where the lofts were originally planned, is being considered by an environmental firm. And the conceptual "independent movie theater" still seems to be an ultimate goal to the developer. The residential component has been severely downsized, however; only a quarter of the of lofts originally planned are still on the drawing board.

Either way, this project will be a great shot in the arm for a neighborhood with a lot of promise. Lincoln Mill has the potential to become just as popular as Five Points in the next couple of years. A couple of shops, restaurants, and a grocery store (how about an urban Publix?) would probably do the trick.

More info:
Times article: Mill Makeover
Past blog posts on the project, including a rendering
Aerial photos of the site- Sellers Photo
Straight to Ale (the microbrewery); and their Facebook page

Madison Square

"The malls are the soon-to-be ghost towns; well so long, farewell, goodbye."- Modest Mouse, "Teeth Like God's Shoeshine"

I'm bored. Very little of any significance is happening right now, so let's talk about something random. Today, we'll discuss Madison Square, Huntsville's next "dead mall."

Ask yourself: When was the last time you went to Madison Square? I can bet that for many of you, it's been a while; probably longer than your last trip to Parkway Place or Bridge Street.
Madison Square Mall was opened in 1984, with 5 anchors: JC Penney, Sears, Parisian, Caster Knott (now Dillard's), and Pizitz (became McRae's, now Belk). It has room for up to 120 stores. Madison Square has been renovated twice-- once in 1994 and again in 2006. At the time of its opening, it was built in what seemed like the edge of nowhere; Huntsville stopped at Sparkman, as seen in this 1982 map (Look-- a Woolco!):

Despite store mergers, liquidations, and stores surrounding Madison Square closing and/or moving farther out into the sprawl of western Madison County, it fared relatively well for its first 20 years, mainly because it had no competition. Madison Square's opening began the slow and painful decline of the three older (smaller) malls near downtown that shared that title through the 70s: The Mall, Parkway City Mall, and Heart of Huntsville Mall (now Constellation); all of which had become "dead malls" by 2000.

But those dead malls came back to haunt Madison Square. In 1999, the Fountain replaced The Mall, and while the power center, with anchors like Home Depot and Costco, had little effect on Madison Square, the opening of Parkway Place (formerly Parkway City) in 2002 did, which, ironically enough, is partially owned by the same developers/owners of Madison Square (CBL of Chattanooga), who had scrapped plans to build a 1.2 million sq. ft. enclosed mall (scroll down) in South Huntsville in the late 90s to redevelop Parkway City. After that, Madison Square was referred to as the "old mall" (as in, "Hey, want to go to the mall?" "Which one? The new mall or the old mall?"). But despite the label, Madison Square held on to most of its name-brand tenants until 2007-2008, when it was hit twice: Bridge Street opened a couple of miles to the south, and the recession began soon after, with stores like KB Toys, Friedman's Jewelers and Steve and Barry's closing as part of their respective company liquidations.

Now, to be fair, despite the odds being against it, Madison Square is still holding on. Four out of its five anchor spots are still occupied, and it still has over 80 stores (not including the food court or kiosks). Definitely not a dead mall. But some of the recent tenants-- a blacklight mini-golf course, a now-defunct auto dealership, even a sex shop-- are signs that the end is near for Madison Square.

In the next few years, it's going to get harder for Madison Square to hold its ground. Bridge Street and Parkway Place have plans for future anchor tenants. While we can safely speculate that Macy's (not a Madison Square anchor) is at the top of at least Bridge Street's list, it isn't out of the question that one of the current Madison Square anchors (especially JCPenney) could be siphoned away with the promise of a new store elsewhere. And then there's the threat of uber-sprawl developments such as WaterStone in Madison.

There are several ways a dead mall can be "resurrected." In Nashville, a mall called Bellevue Center quickly died after losing two of its three anchors, and all that remains today is a Sears. The mall is now planned to be partially converted to a Kohl's on one level and a branch of the Nashville Public Library on the other (though it's on hold due to legal reasons). On the other side of the city, there are plans to convert part of Hickory Hollow, a mall very much like Madison Square (age, size, ownership), into a satellite campus for a community college. Converting Madison Square into a power center or an educational facility could work, but let's be creative, shall we?

From "super-regional" to "super-mixed-use"

Here's my idea for that day in the near future when Madison Square kicks the bucket. Let's look at what it's got: it's in a very visible location, at the intersection of University and AL255, an area with ~100,000 vehicles passing through every day. A high-visibility location such as Madison Square deserves a high-visibility redevelopment. So how about this: assuming the current anchors remain (they separately own the parcels of land their stores sit on), build a 40-ish-store open-air center in the parking lot and move the current tenants there along with some new ones. Then close the old mall and convert it to an open-air center, with another 40 retail spaces remaining on the ground floor and office space on the upper level.

The sea of parking at Madison Square could be put to better use by creating a high-density, pedestrian-friendly environment (like Atlanta's Atlantic Station and Austin's The Domain) surrounding the new open-air center. One idea is to build several mid- and high-rise (5-15 floors) office buildings, and add a few hotels, new anchors, and condos/apartments down the road. Parking would be consolidated into several multi-story parking garages. I left off most of that on the layout above (note the large chunks of remaining parking lot) because the number of possible layouts is infinite; I'll leave that to your imagination.

Note that this is merely my idea; it is NOT an official plan by CBL (the developers/owners of Madison Square). So don't get on to me if this doesn't happen, because, it won't.

Madison Square still has a few years left in it; worst-case scenario, I give it until 2014, its 30th anniversary. And a smaller revitalization (such as demolishing only a portion of the mall and converting it to an open-air center) might add a decade or so to its lifespan. Admittedly, my idea is quite radical. But that's what Huntsville needs-- new, fresh, unique ideas-- to get itself away from having the feel of an overgrown suburb.

Educate yourself: If you wondering what the heck I was talking about when I mentioned "dead malls," here's a couple of my favorite blogs on the subject. They include some interesting articles on some Huntsville malls, including The Mall and Madison Square:
deadmalls DOT com
Labelscar

Drake State planning downtown campus

Recently, Drake State Technical College, in an aggressive attempt to compete with its much larger and more well-known sibling Calhoun, has discussed plans to expand out of its Meridian Street campus and into more visible locations throughout the city. A few months ago, they proposed using the recently closed Stone Middle School on Governors. Now, Drake State has plans to use the Times Building, the 12-story building built in the 1930s at the corner of Holmes and Greene that has been slowly renovated into office space.

Center-city college campuses are a great way to bring mass amounts of people into the core and revitalize the areas surrounding them. Birmingham has UAB, Chattanooga has UTC, and Atlanta has Georgia Tech. The difference between these schools and Drake State is that they have large on-campus populations, whereas Drake is strictly a commuter campus. Having Drake downtown would only bring students during the day and, while significantly increase the daytime population of the CBD, probably wouldn't do much for the full-time population, the number that will bring the retail and entertainment options critical for a successful downtown. To fix that, I think the city should push for more affordable apartments and condos downtown, ones that students from UAH and A&M can afford. Make downtown even more attractive for college students by enhancing transit to the universities. And after enough students (and everyone else) move to downtown, the retail and entertainment will follow.

But back to Drake State. I prefer the Stone Middle School idea; the building already has classrooms and won't need too much renovation, there is room for expansion along Clinton, parking would be less of a hassle, and the area is ripe for revitalization. The Times building doesn't have classrooms, the only way to expand is to lease more space, parking would probably rely on a proposed 5-level public parking garage across the street, and the surrounding neighborhood is much more desirable (which would probably increase lease rates in the future). But if Drake State can manage to do it, I say, go for it.

Public projects moving forward

There might not be a lot of activity with commercial development right now, but the government is a buildin'! Four major public projects are beginning construction in the next couple of months:

VBC Concert Hall (Mark Smith Concert Hall): A $5 million expansion/renovation/makeover which will include new seats, a new sound system, a renovated lobby, and a new exterior. Construction Start: October. Completion: Summer 2010.

VBC Arena (Propst Arena): A $15 million renovation, including new bathrooms, concession areas (with a new cafe/bar with outdoor seating), and skyboxes. Construction start and completion are similar to the Concert Hall renovations.

Huntsville Museum of Art: A scaled-down expansion of the decade-old museum. The $7 million expansion includes new gallery space, an auditorium, and new entrances on the park and Williams Street sides of the museum. Bid date: September 24th. Construction start: November. Completion: 2011.

Lee High School: A new high school for Northeast Huntsville. The new school will be across the railroad tracks from the current one; if you've driven down Meridian lately, you've probably noticed the land has already been cleared. Bid date: October 15. Construction start: November. Completion: Opening by the 2011-2012 school year, maybe sooner.

Passenger Rail Coming to Huntsville?

There was an interesting article in Sunday's Montgomery Advertiser. It seems there is some interest in bringing intercity passenger rail service back to several Alabama cities. Since Katrina, Amtrak has run only one route, the Crescent, through the state, stopping at stations in Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and Anniston on the way between New Orleans and New York. Amtrak has shown interest in bringing back service between Mobile and Birmingham, a route that ran as the Gulf Breeze between 1989 and 1995. It would be part of a plan to increase Amtrak service in the Southeast region, which the rail company believes is "underserved."

According to the Advertiser, a state passenger rail plan is being developed using stimulus funds by the Alabama Department of Economic and Community Affairs (ADECA). In most states, the state DOT performs this study, but ALDOT legally can't do it, as seen with a proposed regional feasibility study of a high-speed rail line between Atlanta and New Orleans. Thank your state Constitution of 1901 for that bit of ignorance.

So, what would this mean for Huntsville? According to Huntsville's long-term transportation plan, there have been preliminary studies on introducing a Huntsville-Birmingham passenger rail service. But they were done back when Amtrak wasn't doing too great financially, and wasn't looking to expand service. Maybe now they would be more eager to start such a route. A north-south passenger rail service through the state could also be extended to Nashville, another city that currently lacks Amtrak service.

And here's another idea-- you know that "Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta highway" pipe dream that's never going to get built? How about looking into an electrified high-speed freight/passenger rail line between the three cities? It would be cheaper, more fuel-efficient, and faster than a highway. Think about it: right now, it takes about 4 hours to (legally) get from Huntsville to Atlanta via highway. A direct highway would get you there in about 2 1/2, if you don't get stuck in traffic. A high-speed rail line, even with a low average speed of 85 mph, could make the trip in less than 2 hours-- and no traffic.

Finally, a little bit of trivia: the last time there was regular passenger rail service to Huntsville was in 1968. However, an Amtrak service called the Floridian stopped in Decatur until 1979.

More info:
Southern High Speed Rail Commission
Federal Railroad Administration: Passenger Rail

Transit planning, revisited

The Times on Sunday ran a story about the state of public transportation in the city. By 2011, federal operating assistance for the Shuttle will disappear, making the city the only source for funding, thanks to a state constitutional amendment that prohibits transit funding and a state Department of Transportation that publicly supports that law. The article incorrectly stated that the average commute time for Madison County is 18 minutes; according to the Census Bureau, in 2007, the average commute time for Madison County was 20.5 minutes, for the Huntsville-Decatur region, 24.25 minutes. By comparison, New York County, NY-- Manhattan-- has a average commuter time of 30.5 minutes. An editorial by John Peck had some interesting statistics. Nearly half (45%) of transit embarkments are in Northwest Huntsville; 30% in Southwest. Only 40% of riders are commuters, according to a city survey.

And last night, developer Doug Gooch did his pitch to the Madison City Council for their support on his light rail plan. For those who need to refresh their memory, here's my blog post about it from a few months ago.

People, I cannot stress this enough. The lack of reliable, convenient public transit is a city problem that needs a regional solution, and I don't mean just Madison County. It also won't be solved behind closed doors by some developer or a group of "civic leaders." And as long as transit is run only by the city of Huntsville, it will remain the "empty bus to nowhere." For transit to be truly successful here, there will need to be a planned regional system in place, and it will need to involve everybody, from mayors/councilmen/commissioners from every sizable town and county in the area, to the average rush hour commuter, to even college students and teenagers. Any less than that, and it will fail.

But first, like I've said before, we need a comprehensive regional transit plan. A regional transit plan would give the region specific alternatives to expanding roads and explore all the options and their costs. Some cities include this "Transportation Alternatives Study" in their long-range transportation plan (LRTP). Huntsville's 2030 LRTP has a section for public transit, but it fails to provide specific plans or options-- it basically says the area might need more in the future. We're due for an updated LRTP in the next year or so. Need some ideas?

• Birmingham, for all its faults, has a neat transit plan. The Regional Transit Improvement Strategy was completed five years ago. It includes alternatives and costs for transit improvements for major corridors in the Birmingham region.
• Chattanooga is currently developing an alternatives study, which will be included in their 2035 LRTP. This page gives a good summary of what a region the size of Huntsville's should be looking into for future plans, including: bike/pedestrian accessibility, local and express bus service, even an eventual rail transit system.
• Atlanta has a very comprehensive transportation plan, part of a larger regional plan called "Envision6"-- the 6 is for the projected 6 million residents of the metro area. While we're not envisioning 6 anytime soon (more like 1), it's cool to look at all of the options available. And they looked at just about everything.

All of the cities I listed above have strong regional planning councils who coordinate transportation and land-use planning, among other government functions, in their respective areas. Huntsville and Decatur should seriously look into getting one of these.

Looking Elsewhere...

Well, it's been a slow couple of weeks in Huntsville's urban development (it's always like this this time of year), so I thought we might look at what other cities in the region are doing:

Nashville's Gulch district is having trouble filling 800 condos built in the district in the past few years, according to The Tennessean. Despite TIF District improvements and its proximity to downtown, Music Row, and the West End (Nashville's Medical District), nothing could stop the recession; only 165 condos have sold in the three largest high-rise projects. However, it has had some success in bringing restaurants, clubs, and retail. Some familiar names, like Cantina Laredo and Urban Outfitters, have opened up shop there in the past year.

Those looking for more Sweetwater-type mega-developments might be interested in May Town Center, a project struggling to get approval from Nashville's planning board, partly because of access issues to the project, which will be surrounded on three sides by the Cumberland River. Another reason for the opposition is that it will be located in Bells Bend, a mostly agricultural area that is one of the last major open spaces left in Davidson County.

Chattanooga has 1-up-ped us again. A Monaco-style 12-screen movie theater is under construction downtown to replace the Bijou, a theater built during the first revitalization about 20 years ago. RiverCity Company, a non-profit organization responsible for much of Chattanooga's rebirth (Huntsville has tried to imitate its success with an organization called Big Spring Partners. Never heard of them? Exactly.) is developing the project along with Carmike Cinemas.

Birmingham is looking at building a downtown ballpark (sound familiar?) for the Barons, who currently play at Regions Park in Hoover. A development company is looking at the site near Railroad Park for the new stadium.

Constellation leasing signs up

As some of you have probably noticed, there are "now leasing" signs up along the Parkway service road for the Constellation outparcels, which will probably be occupied by restaurants. Today, a new sign went up along Clinton across from the project for a 3-story "Class A" office building that has been in the plans since the development was first publicly announced over 2 years ago. A rendering of the building is on the sign, so if you're in that part of downtown, go check it out-- it looks pretty cool. Otherwise, click on the image to get a better look at the rendering.

Time for a new Joe?

The Huntsville Stars, the AA minor-league baseball team that has been here since 1985, might be moving to another city in a couple of years because of low attendance, according to the assistant general manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, of which the Stars are an affiliate of. Of course, this might just be a hollow threat. But let's say it's not.

The Stars have played in the Joe W. Davis Stadium (known to many locals as "the Joe") since they moved here in the mid-80s from Nashville. According to Wikipedia, it was considered the "crown jewel" of the league when it opened. But today, it's the oldest stadium in the league, and it doesn't include amenities that most modern ballparks have. Plus, its gray, metal and concrete architecture is less than stellar, possibly a result of it being hastily built.

Despite several renovations (the last being in 2007), not much seems to be helping attendance, which is last in the 10-team league. Many cities in this situation have built brand new stadiums to boost attendance and keep the team from going somewhere else. So, is it time for a new Joe?

One possibility is to build the new stadium next to the current Joe. While it would be cheaper to do that (considering the city already owns the land) the current stadium seems out of place, tucked away off the Parkway in a mostly industrial part of town, with little opportunity for spinoff development. If Huntsville really wants to bring some visibility to the team, they'll need to build somewhere else. Might I suggest... downtown?

Coca-Cola Ballpark

Several cities have built new downtown baseball stadiums in the last decade-- Memphis (Autozone Park), Montgomery (Riverwalk Stadium), and Chattanooga (AT&T Field), to name a few. Most of these have been successful in bringing people to the games and to the area surrounding the stadium. The ballparks in Montgomery and Chattanooga are a part of their successful riverfront revitalization projects. Memphis's ballpark anchors (along with the FedEx Forum, home of the NBA Grizzlies) an entertainment district.

So, say we had the $30 million or so to build a new downtown stadium. Where would it be built? One suggestion is the Coca-Cola bottling facility at the corner of Monroe and Clinton (hence the Coca-Cola Ballpark), outlined in white in the aerial image below. It would be an ideal place for a stadium, across the street from the VBC where the other professional minor-league teams in Huntsville play. It's within walking distance to Big Spring Park, the Constellation project, parking, and several open lots that are potential hotel/office/residential development sites. (Image courtesy Sellers Photo)

The city could also partner with developers to create a mixed-use project anchored by the stadium. Following the trend of new ballparks, the new stadium would probably have fewer seats than the Joe does-- about 6-7,000 compared to the current Joe's 10,200. The fewer seats would be closer to the field, allowing for a more "intimate" ballpark experience-- something that's popular in modern baseball stadium design.

Sure, there are probably cheaper places to build a new ballpark in the area. But would building a stadium in the middle of a cotton field in Limestone County be as awesome as a downtown stadium? No, because you are not Kevin Costner, and this is not Field of Dreams. If you build it [there], they will not come.